John Chow Bio
John Chow is an author, speaker, product creator, and top earner in his company. John has been featured in such publications as the Vancouver Sun, the Globe and Mail, the New York Times, Entrepreneur Magazine, Ming Pao Magazine, and BC Business Magazine. John runs one of the most popular blogs in the network marketing industry, JohnChow.com ranking in the top 15,000 globally and in many countries ranking in the top 5,000 of all websites in the world. John was the first person to hit 7 figures in his company, while his blog consistently brings in a consistent 5 figure income per month, and now he’s here on Network Marketing Nation to share his six and seven figure success story with you!
Read The Entire John Chow Interview Transcript Below:
Vince Reed 0:00 – 0:03
Network Marketing Nation, episode eight.
John Chow 0:03 – 0:12 (sound bite)
My response has always been, you know, if I had not gone to the Mastermind, I would not have saved $4,000. I would have cost myself $1.5 million.
Vince Reed 0:13 – 0:32
You’re listening to Network Marketing Nation, where six and seven figure top earners share their stories. My name is Vince Reed, Internet marketing trainer and coach. Prepare to be inspired.
Vince Reed 0:33 – 1:52
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Alright, I’m extremely excited, I’m here on the line with John Chow. John Chow is an author, speaker, product creator, and top earner in his company. John has been featured in such publications as the Vancouver Sun, the Globe and Mail, the New York Times, Entrepreneur Magazine, Ming Pao Magazine, and BC Business Magazine. John runs one of the most popular blogs in the network marketing industry, JohnChow.com ranking in the top 15,000 globally and in many countries ranking in the top 5,000 of all websites in the world. John was the first person to hit 7 figures in his company, while his blog consistently brings in a consistent 5 figure income per month. Now he’s here on Network marketing Nation to share his 6 and 7 figure success story with you. John, what’s going on man, are you ready to rock and roll?
John Chow 1:52 – 1:54
I sure am Vince, how are you doing?
Vince Reed 1:54 – 2:04
I’m awesome man, it’s always good to touch base. I was just joking around with John, he lives literally around the corner from me and I said it’s a shame we haven’t got together much, so now we definitely have to do a lunch date.
John Chow 2:04
Vince Reed 2:05 – 2:18
Awesome. So you’ve got an amazing story. I got a chance to get to know you over the years. We’ve shared the stage at several events. And you know, is there anything that I left out in that amazing story that you’d love everyone to kind of know about you?
John Chow 2:19 – 2:23
I think you did a pretty good job tooting my horn for me so thank you.
Vince Reed 2:24 – 2:54
Awesome, I mean it definitely, you know, is a journey in this industry so to accomplish some of the things that you’ve accomplished is amazing and I’m sure we’ll touch on all of those. And by the way, to have such a blog doing that well, I don’t think people quite realize how many websites or blogs are out there, you know, when we started even Network Marketing Nation we were I think like 17 million in terms of ranking when we launched, and to be in the top 5,000 in several countries is amazing. So kudos to you man.
John Chow 2:55
Vince Reed 2:56 – 3:16
Awesome. So you know, you’ve earned a minimum of 6 figures and obviously 7 figures in your company, which is a goal for a lot of people getting started. And you know, I always like to ask this question first because when people get started in this industry, that’s their dream, you know, they want to have that freedom.
So share with everyone listening how does that actually make you feel to accomplish that goal?
John Chow 3:17 – 3:59
Well you know, it feels pretty damn good because one of my biggest achievements is what I call the dot com lifestyle, which to me it means time freedom, money freedom, and location freedom. And my blog in the company has definitely allowed me to achieve that. Today, you know, I do have freedom of money, I do have freedom of time, but more importantly I do have freedom of location, like you and I are next door neighbors. But during the summer time it does get pretty hot down here in Southern California, so what we do, my family and I, we just jet back up to Vancouver and we spend summers there where it’s a nice 72 degrees. And when it starts raining in Vancouver, we fly back down here where it becomes 72 degrees again.
Vince Reed 3:59 – 4:23
Awesome man, and that’s what it’s all about. Having that time to spend with your family and you have a great family as well, I’ve got a chance to meet them. And normally I kind of want to go off a little bit. You know, what is your .. I know you’ve kind of joked about it, you know, when I’ve seen you speak before but how does your family feel, you know, I know your daughter at one point thought that was just how things were. Like your dad works from home, tell us a little bit about that and how cool that is.
John Chow 4:23 – 5:10
Yeah, growing up Sally had both parents in the house and to her, that was normal to her. She did not know any difference, and she did not find out that was not the norm until she started school when she realized that when she’s wondering to the other kids, “how come your parents don’t drop you off at school or pick you up from school? And how come they don’t bring your lunch?” And she didn’t realize that their parents have to work. So that was a bit of a shock to her. She asked me a question like, “I’m talking to my friend Kaylee and you know, her parents don’t pick her up or drop her off or stuff.” And I kind of say, “Well, that’s how it is, Sally, normally.” But we definitely have something different.
Vince Reed 5:10 – 5:38
That’s awesome man, and that’s really what it’s all about and those of you listening, that’s what you’re striving for. Alright, awesome man. So, you know, you’ve built amazing organizations. I mean, to reach 7 figures you obviously, you know, have sold a lot of products, you’ve built teams.
You know, tell the listeners why should a person join John Chow?
Like what makes your team, you know, what gives you an advantage over other people out there in terms of people looking for someone to get started with?
John Chow 5:38 – 6:23
Well my main advantage is that my team has access to additional training and additional tools that’s not available within the company, so I made all these tools just for my team members only. I make a complete sales funnel, I’ve designed entire ad campaigns that they can utilize. And also they have access to my brand and my name because the name John Chow outside network marketing is synonymous with blogging, it’s synonymous with making money online. I speak at major conferences, so they get to leverage my name and we do webinars together. So just a whole bunch of additional value added stuff that they cannot get with another team. So that’s one of the reasons I have one of the most successful teams in the company.
Vince Reed 6:23 – 6:39
Awesome man, and what would you tell someone listening, getting started to be able to position themselves in such a way? Like when you got started, was that your initial plan, to say, “Hey, I’m going to build a platform, an awesome blog, provide them with tools”? Or did it just kind of happen and you just figured it out along the way?
John Chow 6:40 – 7:01
Little bit of both, a little bit of both. Like I said, I was already a successful blogger before I got involved in network marketing. So it’s just a matter of leveraging what I already had and just using that to position myself and then using my blog, using my name to just create a position of expert status so that other people can leverage off that as well.
Vince Reed 7:01 – 7:18
That’s awesome man. Cool, cool. Now here’s another question for you, you know, this is always for me a fun one to ask because you’ve got a wealth of experience.
And I’m curious, when did you actually get started on the Internet? Like when did you first get started?
John Chow 7:18 – 8:30
I guess I would be called grandfathered into it. I’ve been a full time Internet marketer since 1998. Yeah, so my blog was started in December of 2005. And that blog was started with the sole purpose of updating friends and family. Because I have friends and I have family that’s living in Toronto and family living still in mainland China. So instead of, you know, calling each other up, they could just log into JohnChow.com and find out what’s happening with the family in Vancouver. So like I said, the blog’s purpose was just to update friends and family, it was never meant to make any money, but it also allowed me to talk about my other money making sites. Like I said, I’ve been a full time Internet marketer since 1998, so the blog allowed me to talk about my Internet projects and how I’m monetizing those projects, so I blog about, you know, by just changing the color I can increase conversion. That kind of stuff. And it was those I guess money making topics that got people interested in my blog and after a while, I started getting questions about, you know, how will you monetize a blog? How will you monetize this and stuff? And it’s from there the blog just expanded and grew into one of the biggest Internet marketing blogs out there.
Vince Reed 8:31 – 9:08
That’s awesome man, so you’ve definitely been doing this a long time. And for those of you listening, you definitely should be blogging. And I know some people say, “Well what should I be blogging about?” Just talk about your experiences and what you learned. So obviously you’ve been doing this since ’95, your blog started in 2005. For me that’s amazing because I consider myself a senior citizen because I got started in 2008, so you’ve got me beat.
So what piece of advice – because you’ve got a wealth of experience – would you give yourself when you got started?
If you could go back and talk to yourself back in ’98 or, you know, when you launched your blog, is there anything special that you would tell yourself?
John Chow 9:08 – 9:47
By far the biggest mistake I made when I started the blog was I didn’t start my customer or email list from the get-go because JohnChow.com was a personal blog, I didn’t apply my usual Internet marketing methods to it. So I waited almost a year down the road before I started the list, and had I started the list on day 1, you know, the list today would be twice the size and conversely my income would be twice as big. So my advice for anyone starting out is basically to start the list from the get-go, probably not during it, waiting as long as I did cost me over $1 million. So it’s a mistake I hope you never make.
Vince Reed 9:47 – 10:04
So talk a little bit about a list, because there may be people that aren’t familiar with a list, you know, they’re new to network marketing.
A blog to them sounds probably very difficult and complicated, but how can we simplify a blog and a list, just explaining it in simple terms to someone just listening?
John Chow 10:05 – 12:23
Well in the simplest terms, your list is basically your customer base. Let’s just say you consider yourself like a regular retail store, and you know, your restaurant. You have repeat customers. So the list is the same thing. Your list is customers or visitors who came to your site or came to your landing page and they were nice enough to input their email address onto it. This is actually very valuable and over time, when you have a customer list, you can do a lot with it in terms of leverage. Like right now if I were to launch a new site in whatever I want to choose, my list is over 100,000 names. So I can instantly expose my new site to a list of 100,000 people immediately, and that’s a lot of power right there. So if I start a new site, I can instantly send traffic and this has been over time, so there’s no cost involved other than the cost of hosting the list. There’s actually no cost of mailing those people, it’s always free. So it’s definitely something you need to work on, definitely something you need to build, something you need to nurture. As your list is your customer base, and without a customer base you really can’t do this business. It’s kind of like … I guess the best example would be this: the typical affiliate marketer, you know, they look at an offer. Like just say they click bank, they find an offer to promote so they put it up and promote it and then they buy some traffic. And they send it to the page and they hope that they buy it and the money they make is greater than what they spend, right? But the problem with that kind of model is when they buy it, the customer doesn’t belong to them. Unlike the model we use, the customer belongs to the advertiser or the customer belongs to whoever sends our products. So what you’re doing is just spending the money, you’re not building a list, you’re spending money to build a customer for somebody else. Now if we imagine this as a restaurant or any regular business, that’s like you spending money to get a customer one time that you never see again. Now, a restaurant cannot survive on repeat customers. Most retail businesses or more, any business cannot survive on repeat customers. And if you’re not building your list to build a customer base, if all you’re doing is spending money to send customers to somebody else, you basically have a house of cards.
Vince Reed 12:24 – 13:06
Absolutely, and you know, for Internet marketers out there, they probably heard this term a lot and they say the money and the power is in your list, and I always say the fortune is in the follow-up. So you definitely want to be building that list and building those relationships. Awesome man. So, you know, for those of you out there listening, you want to be blogging and you want to be making sure you have a place on that website where you can capture the name and email and build your list. So I have another question for you, you know, and this is always fun and you know, I’m sure, you know, whoever was this person if they played their cards right would have been positioned quite well.
But how did the first person sponsor or recruit you onto their team when you first got started in network marketing?
John Chow 13:06 – 14:40
Well, I was actually sponsored by the founder of the company. We met at a Mastermind – and that’s another piece of advice too; attend Mastermind, attend events because I attend lots of big events every year and I’ve never actually lost money on it. But anyway, I met the founder of the company at a $4,000 Mastermind in Del Mar in San Diego and he introduced me, he told me what we did, I told him about blogging and we kind of hit it off. And a week later he just sends me an email and the company was holding a $10,000 contest and he asked me if – there was only 72 hours left in this contest, it was a month-long contest, 72 hours left and he was trying to sell a $10,000 eBook. So he basically told me, you know, “If you can sell 100 copies, you have a good chance of winning this thing.” So I did some calculations and I decided to enter with 72 hours left and as luck would have it, I won the contest and so I took $10,000 cash from him down in San Diego. And since then I’ve been involved with the company, I filled in a full lead position in the company and it’s been an amazing journey. So I’ve made over … I’m a 7 figure earner in the company now and all because I attended a major event, I attended Mastermind. I talk to some people and they say, “Why would you spend $4,000 to go to Mastermind?” My response has always been, you know, if I had not gone to the Mastermind, I would not have saved $4,000. I would have cost myself $1.5 million.
Vince Reed 14:41 – 15:23
That’s a great perspective. And I think a lot of people, if you heard that should rewind that and listen to it again because you never go wrong when you invest in yourself and when you put yourself around smart people. You’ll definitely be rewarded. So tell me this, because when it comes to network marketing and with any business, okay, you’re always going to face more rejection than success.
So was there anything that stands out in your mind in terms of a horrible rejection story where someone just rejected you and you wanted to go hide in the sand or hide your face, it was just painful?
Is there anything that stands out? Maybe not necessarily just in network marketing; any business that you’ve been in that you just were trying to talk to someone and they just pretty much shut you down?
John Chow 15:25 – 16:24
Not one particularly, at least not with this company because this is an Internet marketing company so I have everything set up so that the auto-responder is all set up. So basically I don’t have to actually talk to the person and this company has its own phone team, they handle the phone sales and stuff. I just provide the lead. But you know, I do get the typical email that basically says, you know, “This is dumb”, whatever, that kind of stuff. And I basically, you know, to me this is a numbers game. I know that’s going to happen and I look at it this way: if you try to please everybody, you’re doing something wrong. You can’t, it’s impossible. And same thing for my blog, too. I still get people emailing about my blog saying, “You can’t make money by blogging” and “You’re just trying to make money off people.” That’s the kind of stuff. And I look at it this way: if I bought some kind of joy or some kind of relief for somebody able to vent to me, then you know, that’s fine, they can vent away.
Vince Reed 16:24 – 17:01
That’s an awesome perspective on it, awesome. And you’re always going to have people, no one’s ever going to agree with everything you do and I’ve actually, you know, lived by this rule: if everyone is agreeing with you, no one is probably listening. Not enough people are listening because you’re not making enough noise. That’s awesome. So tell me your best success story, either for yourself or maybe someone on your team. Is there anything, like, what was it that happened where you just kind of stepped back and you just felt extremely proud?
Is there any one particular success story personally and maybe something from maybe a team member that’s done something well that made you extremely proud?
John Chow 17:01 – 17:53
Yeah, well definitely seeing my team members do well, it’s always good. Like one of my team members Terry Lam, he’s up to almost $400,000 in commission with this company as well. And just from my own personal success, quite a few – I was the first to qualify for a car. The company bought me a Mercedes Benz SL 550 and recently I was also the first to qualify for a second car, so currently I’m driving a Jaguar F-type convertible V8 S. Definitely louder than my Mercedes. And I was also the first to break 7 figures so those kind of personal success and for breaking the 7 figures the company presented me with a new ring called the Million Dollar Club ring. It’s made of like, 37 diamonds,4 carats and made of platinum and retail value of around $15,000. I was presented with that on stage, so we got that on video. It was a very proud moment for myself.
Vince Reed 17:53 – 18:09
That’s awesome man, and I’m sure that that definitely attracts a lot of people. I mean, that’s why everyone listening, you work hard, you start to hit the ranks, you move up and it will start to pay off more than you think. Do you get people that ever reach out to you and they say, “Hey, what’s going on with that ring? How do I get a car like that?” And you end up with sales?
John Chow 18:08 – 18:53
Yeah, all that stuff that’s showing success, because that’s a lot of what my blogs do. My blog basically… if you actually read my blog, it really doesn’t try to sell so much as it does show the dot com lifestyle. And by showing my lifestyle, showing everybody my travel schedule – like right now, I’m just back in the OC right now but I’m right in the middle of my trip around the world. Like next month I’ll be in Malaysia, Singapore. And it’s just showing that no matter where I am in the world, as long as I have access to the Internet, I can log on and make money. I’m able to bring my family with me because we’re into the summer so Sally will be off school. I’m able to do all that kind of stuff and to just show the lifestyle, that gets people interested and that’s how I sponsor people.
Vince Reed 18:54 – 19:40
Absolutely, absolutely. That’s awesome, man. So I’m proud listening. I mean, not only have you done amazing things, hitting 7 figures, you have students that are on their way to, you know, right behind you, you know, obviously receiving a ring, a couple of cars. And by the way, welcome to the Jaguar family. I called you after I saw you got that car because I actually drive one of those, I love that and that’s cool man, that’s awesome. So you know, what would you tell a person getting started in network marketing? Is there any advice? I mean, we know what you would tell yourself if you could go back, but what would you tell that person that’s listening to this, you know, they’re inspired by your message and your story.
Is there any one bit of advice that you would share with them to help them get better results if they’re just getting started?
John Chow 19:40 – 20:27
Yeah, sure. A bit of due diligence, you know, do check out the company, see their history. Check the competition plan. But just as important, check out the leaders in the company, check out their background, see what they’ve done and the people that they can have come behind them. That’s my main advice and also check out the individual teams within the company because, you know, we have the company itself but then there’s always within the company, there are various teams within the company and a lot of time, you know, you might find that some team are doing things in different ways, some team do it other ways. So you know, you want to fit in with a team that is congruent to what you want to do, your dreams and your goals and do it the way you want to do it.
Vince Reed 20:28 – 20:52
Absolutely, that’s awesome. Now, that’s the newbie.
So what would you tell the struggling veteran?
Maybe a person that’s tried a bunch of companies, maybe they can’t quite get over the hump, you know, they’re stuck on maybe a couple thousand dollars a month and they’re income is going down rapidly and they’ve tried everything, they’ve bought products and they’re just on the verge of quitting. Is there anything you would tell that struggling veteran that they could do to kind of pick their business up, move them forward?
John Chow 20:53 – 23:13
Yeah, it’s kind of like blogging is the same way. Like a lot of people just have been blogging for years, they’ve made no money. What they’ll do is, you know, they’ll read my blog, they’ll read some of my other friends’ blogs that are making money and they’ll get excited. They’ll start the blog and the first week or two they’re gung ho, they’re posting lots and lots of content. But then they see the money is not coming in, so they start waning on their blog posts. Instead of going once a day, they’re going once a week, once a month. And then suddenly, someone clicks on their ads and they made some money, so they go gung ho and then it’s just on again, off again situation. The key is consistency, is consistency and just having faith. Like, I always tell everyone be consistent in what you do, like, set up your traffic plan. If you’re going to put this much into it, keep putting this much into it. Like I tell someone in blogging, pick a posting frequency. If you want to do three posts a week, one post a month or one post a week, or whatever. Pick the frequency and stick to it for at least six months. It is consistency that will get you there. Don’t be an on again, off again Internet marketer. My blogs I started in December of 2005, and for the first five years of its life, it averaged 2.2 blog posts a day every single day. There’s never been a day in the blog’s history where there was not at least one new blog post for someone to read. And I believe it’s this level of consistency that has allowed the blog to be as successful as it does. It was doing 2.2 blog posts, or it was making nothing. And even today with the blog making 6 figures, it’s still doing 2.2 blog posts. And if tomorrow it goes back down to zero, I would still be posting the same number of frequency. So stick to what your plan, create a marketing plan, create a sales funnel, have faith. Put in whatever you’re going to put in traffic, “I’m going to budget $20-$50 a month in traffic, $500 in traffic”, whatever it is. Stick to it, keep going at it because in the long run, this is a numbers game. In the long run, it will make money. Our numbers work, we know the numbers work. We know that if you put in this much money or from this kind of traffic, over the long run, you will win and you will make money. But it will cost, there’s always going to be short term ups and downs and stuff, but anyone who is able to ride it out and be consistent will come ahead in this game.
Vince Reed 23:14 – 23:48
That’s awesome, that’s great advice. That’s another one of those moments where if you’re listening you might want to rewind and hear that again because it is definitely about consistency. And you know, one of the things that kind of drives me is knowing that the average person is, you know, not going to make it 90 days and the average person is going to quit the second they feel adversity. If you just maintain, you’re going to be taking their customers that they would have been in front of. So consistency is definitely key. Alright, so that leads us to the time is money round, so what I’m going to do is ask you a few questions and you’re going to have 60 seconds or less to answer them. Are you ready?
John Chow 23:48
Vince Reed 23:49 – 23:58
Alright, so what is your number one marketing tip for new network marketers?
I think I know the answer. But go ahead.
John Chow 23:58 – 24:17
Other than building your list, because we said that, I would say deliver value. Always deliver value. The amount of money you make online will be directly proportional to the value you deliver. Do not think, “How much can I make off this person?” Think, “How much value can I deliver to this person to make him do better?”
Vince Reed 24:17 – 24:34
That’s awesome, definitely works guys. Absolutely.
Alright, question number two: who do you look up to as a mentor or an entrepreneur?
IF I went over to your home, is there any people that I’d see on your wall or on your bookshelf? Is there anybody that you kind of pay attention to more than others?
John Chow 24:35 – 24:56
Generally my mentor, I look for people who are already where I want to be. There’s like marketing, personal development. So in terms of marketing, I have mentors that do that. —————————–, he taught me marketing which is amazing because you’ve got to know marketing to sell a cable that costs $1,000.
Vince Reed 24:56 – 25:07
Absolutely, absolutely. And then is there any other entrepreneurs outside of marketing that you look up to? Any names that people might recognize?
Or books of people you might suggest? Anything like that?
John Chow 25:07 – 25:22
Stephen Covey, 7 Habits of Highly Successful People, highly recommend that one. Tim Ferris, 4-hour Work Week. I mean, that’s what the dot com lifestyle is all about, so I got a chance to meet him, take pictures with him and he even sent me a pre-release copy of his book.
Vince Reed 25:23 – 25:48
Awesome man, that’s cool. Real cool. Alright so one other question for you here, and, you know, this is a tough one because most people getting into the network marketing industry, you’re told to go talk to friends and family. And you know, I always believed that there’s something of value and it’s a good business, it’s a good opportunity. You should invite or talk to your family about it.
But is there any approach that you might give someone that they could use when approaching a friend or family member about their business?
John Chow 25:50 – 26:11
Basically, you just tell them … you treat things as a business and that was to tell them, “Yeah, I got started in a new business,” whatever that is, “and if you’re interested I’d like to show it to you.” But generally – especially with friends and family – sometimes it’s best to show the results. Like once you’ve become successful yourself, they will then approach you through it.
Vince Reed 26:11 – 26:28
Absolutely. Alright, cool. So you know, you’ve known me a while. Like, I know we’ve known each other for a few years now, you should know that I can’t do anything without providing you with value.
So if you could ask me one marketing question or any question about business, what would it be?
John Chow 26:28 – 26:37
Actually no, I wouldn’t want to ask you a question about business but say I would like to ask you a question that I like to ask everyone, and basically it’s, “What do you do for fun?”
Vince Reed 26:37 – 27:24
Wow, you know, I think you’re the first person to ever ask me that. You know, I actually love to work out. In fact a lot of people don’t know this, but I actually do a little bit of boxing. I’ve had two amateur fights and I love to do a little bit of boxing on the side and work out and being a former athlete, it’s a good way for me to still be competitive and work out. So, yeah. Boxing and I love to travel. I like to, you know, basically get away and see the world and over the last couple of years we definitely made it a point to do more traveling. We’ve kind of been on hold because we just had our first child, so that kind of slowed things a little bit. But we’re definitely ready to pick it back up. We’re going to Hawaii soon.
John Chow 27:25 – 27:38
And you’ve got to do it before they start school because my traveling myself has slowed down since Sally has gone to school. But before when she wasn’t in school, you know, she hadn’t started school yet, we were just all over the world.
Vince Reed 27:39 – 28:02
That’s awesome, I know. We’ve seen, I mean I was able to go to Fiji with you, we’ve been all over man, so I know that she’s been in those places as well. So what an amazing lifestyle for a person her age and even for us, just to be able to have that kind of lifestyle and be in the places that we’ve been. It’s awesome. So before I let you go, where can people connect with you? How can people, you know, find some of the stuff that you have out there?
John Chow 28:02 – 28:17
Easiest way, go visit me at my blog at JohnChow.com, that’s J-O-H-N C-H-O-W .com. If you email me, firstname.lastname@example.org. And of course I’m also available on Twitter, Facebook, and all the other social media channels.
Vince Reed 28:17 – 28:27
That’s awesome man. Well I definitely appreciate you coming on. Is there anything in closing that you’d like to share to the listeners?
Any advice in closing?
John Chow 28:27 – 28:51
Yeah, my advice is like, keep your angle in mind. In my case the angle is the dot com lifestyle. Keep your angle in mind, but more importantly, it’s more important to me to enjoy the journey along the way. Too many people focus on the end goal and they forget to sit back and enjoy the roses. Then when you finally get there you realize that it wasn’t the final destination that was important, it was the journey along the way. So enjoy the journey.
Vince Reed 28:52 – 29:08
That’s awesome. And with that being said, that completes our interview. John, I appreciate it and I look forward to connecting with you more in the future and for those of you listening, I hope you got a ton of value. This is definitely one you want to listen to again and I look forward to seeing you on the next episode. Take care.
Vince Reed 29:10 – 29:27
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